Categories[]
- If you put all of the tables on Category pages, then you have rendered the purpose of the category page completely inert. The tables are there to show you all of the "Legs" Armor, for example, and so are the Category pages. There is not point to having the tables AND the Category listings on the same page, it only makes for a much more cluttered page. Think about it, by the time that all of the armor is listed, these will be enormously laggy pages. Not to mention that the tables have an alphabetical sorting button built into them.
- Category pages are for a quick reference to the category. Article pages are for detailed information. These are clear differences between the two and these differences should be maintained for the sake of cleanliness. Just an observation. 70.101.53.30 15:28, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
After a certain number of pages are in a category, it will only display up to a certain amount, which will limit the size of the page -- even still, plain text will not make a page laggy (unless it's several hundred pages long). If the categories are laggy, it will most likely be the sortable tables. If many people insist, the Category:whatever page could be a list, a "detailed description" could be added to :whatever, and this could link to "List of Leg Armor pieces" or something. Wikipedia uses Category pages as you say, with links to the main page for this article from the Category page; most smaller wikis, for whatever reason, tend to use the category page as the article page. I like this better because it puts everything in one page, and it's not really any more laggy. Up to you guys though. «Nuilvian Talk/Contribs» 00:31, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
Changes to make it easier to add armor/weapons?[]
I'm thinking of making modifications of the way armor and weapon templates are done to make it easier to add info. Mainly this can be done by automating a lot of the process to make it less time consuming to do so. First off, I'm thinking of dividing up the items into templates similar to the Bow template, which should automate a number of things. Like the Bow template, it'll already have the type of weapon/armor there, but I've noticed any given type of armor/weapon is always equipable by the same classes, and any given class of weapon seems to always have the same speed. On top of this, I wonder if it might be possible to make the icon filenames be a part of the template as well, and just keep the naming convention I've been using so far for screenshots and icons.
Secondly, I wonder if it might be possible for a bot of some sort to automatically update the category pages. I know there's a reason for having that table, it's a nice ordered way to check all the items out, but it's a little time consuming having to basically enter in all the info twice. --Urth 20:25, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
- I can't argue with any of those ideas. You can put
[[Image:{{PAGENAME}} Icon.PNG]], etc. and probably do what you want with the icons/SS's. {{PAGENAME}} is an awesome little magic word.
- As far as the second bit, bots are temperamental creatures and but could almost certainly do what you want. However, I don't have anywhere near the skill to make a bot that can do this. I don't think AWB could do it, but it's very possible. You can request the bot flag and the ability to use AWB on Central Wiki somewhere. Sorry I can't be more helpful, «Nuilvian Talk/Contribs» 04:06, January 6, 2010 (UTC). :(
- So far made Template: Small to test this out, and it works beautifully. With this, all I need to enter is the level, DPS, damage range, and any bonuses, rather than having to manually type out the speed, and retype the name over and over again. --Urth 09:15, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
- Actually... went and made the rest of the weapon ones too. I'll see about making the armor ones in the morning, then it'd be time to convert the old armor and weapons over to the new templates and such... but so worth it in the end. Ain't so mindnumbing to upload an inventory of items to the wiki. Now if only I could make taking the screenshots easier :P --Urth 09:47, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
- Clever, will solve the class problem too :) --Mushroom mushroom ♥/♣ 13:44, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
I wish I had a Junior Sysop group around here, but I don't. At least for now, you're an administrator because I have no idea how you can bear existing without Special:MultipleUpload. «Nuilvian Talk/Contribs» 14:58, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
- The same way humanity existed for so long with only stone tools. They didn't know anything better existed. Now excuse me while I try to stop drooling over that. --Urth 21:52, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
- @Urth I like most of those ideas, and as I made the original templates I'd be willing to convert them all and simplify them out, too. Not to mention going through pre-existing pages and changing over their templates myself, as well. However, I can't vouch for the {{PAGENAME}} idea for images, because I just had to fix that. A number of problems sit there. One problem being that it relies on a naming convention for everyone to use, which is great if it's just us until the end of eternity. But anyone who is new to the wiki might start uploading numbers of pictures and not clueing into that. Secondly and most importantly, the change to PAGENAME corrupted every pre-existing page. All of the images had disappeared, I'm assuming because they were trying to find something like "Dyed Sleeves IconDyed Sleeves Icon.PNG". So, one way or another, the choice should be made now. Do we convert to PAGENAME and fix all old pages and pray for consistency in the naming conventions, or take 5 seconds out of every post to type the filename again? I'm rambling, so I'll stop, but I do like the idea of having a template for every class of weapon, and possibly for armor. Cheers, Urth.
Specific τ/‹ 02:28, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
- @Urth I like most of those ideas, and as I made the original templates I'd be willing to convert them all and simplify them out, too. Not to mention going through pre-existing pages and changing over their templates myself, as well. However, I can't vouch for the {{PAGENAME}} idea for images, because I just had to fix that. A number of problems sit there. One problem being that it relies on a naming convention for everyone to use, which is great if it's just us until the end of eternity. But anyone who is new to the wiki might start uploading numbers of pictures and not clueing into that. Secondly and most importantly, the change to PAGENAME corrupted every pre-existing page. All of the images had disappeared, I'm assuming because they were trying to find something like "Dyed Sleeves IconDyed Sleeves Icon.PNG". So, one way or another, the choice should be made now. Do we convert to PAGENAME and fix all old pages and pray for consistency in the naming conventions, or take 5 seconds out of every post to type the filename again? I'm rambling, so I'll stop, but I do like the idea of having a template for every class of weapon, and possibly for armor. Cheers, Urth.
- Okay, I just worked around with my limited knowledge of parser functions and made a failsafe for everyone to be happy. If the images are named in that wonderful convention of {{PAGENAME}}.png and {{PAGENAME}} Icon.png then feel free to disregard the iconfile and imagefile sections. Same for speed, if it stays to the weapon's standards. If, however, any of these should vary from the norm, simply fill in the parameter field with whatever is needed and it will work! Voila! Specific τ/‹ 16:49, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, I just worked around with my limited knowledge of parser functions and made a failsafe for everyone to be happy. If the images are named in that wonderful convention of {{PAGENAME}}.png and {{PAGENAME}} Icon.png then feel free to disregard the iconfile and imagefile sections. Same for speed, if it stays to the weapon's standards. If, however, any of these should vary from the norm, simply fill in the parameter field with whatever is needed and it will work! Voila!
- Apologizing in advance for the triple post, but I had to mention that there is a bit of a finicky point to this new system. When you upload a file, it must be a .png format and it has to be capitalized as such (Not .PNG). Files uploaded as .PNG won't work with the {{PAGENAME}} Icon.png setup, while .png DOES work with pre-existing content. I don't think it should be hard to ensure that your files have lowercased extensions, but I just wanted to clarify. Specific τ/‹ 19:16, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Apologizing in advance for the triple post, but I had to mention that there is a bit of a finicky point to this new system. When you upload a file, it must be a .png format and it has to be capitalized as such (Not .PNG). Files uploaded as .PNG won't work with the {{PAGENAME}} Icon.png setup, while .png DOES work with pre-existing content. I don't think it should be hard to ensure that your files have lowercased extensions, but I just wanted to clarify.
Armor[]
I'm wondering how we should do armor. Currently, I'm thinking of making templates for the four armor types, as well as two more: One for rings and one for amulets (Differs from the normal cloth templates in that it doesn't require a screenshot, as these items do not show up on the character). Of course, I could make a single amulet/ring template and require the person to add which of the two it is. --Urth 05:13, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
I would like to see the listing apply to ranged weapons and rings/amulets (templates etc.). at this point i am taking a break from screenshoting all of these and just working on quests. Also i have a question about Dungeons. are we just going to screen shot a hole bunch of minimap spots and links them together to get a full dungeon map or how would you like us to do this. I have started on some NPCs but when we get a template i will update all of them in the meantime however, maybe, we could use templates from other etablished mmo wikis such as Guildwars. User:Redeye Highgrove
- I already made templates for ranged weapons: Template:Bow, Template:Wand, Template:Thrown. As for the dungeons, I'll need to see about talking to Mcspeedfreak about using his maps on here. --Urth 02:22, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
- I just worked around my old Bow template that you edited and I think I got everything that you wanted with it, Urth. I'm off now to rework the rest of my ranged templates and then probably whip up similar templates for every other weapon class. Speed and imagenames won't be a problem, anymore. As for armor, I'll get to thinking on that after these ._.
Specific τ/‹ 16:49, April 21, 2010 (UTC) -- UPDATE: I finished the rest of the weapon templates (Except for Talisman. I don't know anything about them.) They are Template:Bow, Template:Wand, Template:Thrown, Template:OneHand, Template:TwoHand (Capitalization IS important!), Template:Pole, and Template:Small. Also, check my post above for notes on screenshot naming conventions. Specific τ/‹ 23:56, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
- I just worked around my old Bow template that you edited and I think I got everything that you wanted with it, Urth. I'm off now to rework the rest of my ranged templates and then probably whip up similar templates for every other weapon class. Speed and imagenames won't be a problem, anymore. As for armor, I'll get to thinking on that after these ._.
- With Patch: 0.8.6, which I just now saw, a lot of our information has been rendered incorrect. Weapon speeds all set to 2.0. Damage per second no longer a valid parameter. Damage reworked on all weapons to match the new speeds. Icon files mostly changed. All armor changed to be usable by all classes. How do we tell if an armor is heavy (And thus hindering to a Mage's spellcasting?) now? Piggypops says that the only way to tell is essentially guesswork by looking at the stats of the armor (strength is bad for mage durr. Thanks. What if a piece of plate armor had psyche and spirit, as a sort of spice of variety item, and a mage equips it, binding it, and suddenly does hell for damage?). Resistances have been removed and armor has been upped TEMPORARILY, meaning that even if we worked our butts off to fix our current pages, they'd just be wrong again come 3 months from now. I don't think this weapon speed thing will stay as it is, either. Hmph. Irksome. I'm probably missing more complications, but I feel as though I just wasted a lot of time and effort. I'm going to bed and when I wake up, I'm doing Mob & NPC pages. Specific τ/‹ 05:46, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
- With Patch: 0.8.6, which I just now saw, a lot of our information has been rendered incorrect. Weapon speeds all set to 2.0. Damage per second no longer a valid parameter. Damage reworked on all weapons to match the new speeds. Icon files mostly changed. All armor changed to be usable by all classes. How do we tell if an armor is heavy (And thus hindering to a Mage's spellcasting?) now? Piggypops says that the only way to tell is essentially guesswork by looking at the stats of the armor (strength is bad for mage durr. Thanks. What if a piece of plate armor had psyche and spirit, as a sort of spice of variety item, and a mage equips it, binding it, and suddenly does hell for damage?). Resistances have been removed and armor has been upped TEMPORARILY, meaning that even if we worked our butts off to fix our current pages, they'd just be wrong again come 3 months from now. I don't think this weapon speed thing will stay as it is, either. Hmph. Irksome. I'm probably missing more complications, but I feel as though I just wasted a lot of time and effort. I'm going to bed and when I wake up, I'm doing Mob & NPC pages.
- Well the equipment pages will suffer more than the class pages since you have an excessive amount of information. Basically what I did which seemed easier was to keep the current information from patch 0.8.5 but add in notes for 0.8.6. that included the current changes, this way if updates are made and it's about 80% close to it's passed content, all I had to do was make minor edits and remove anything obsolete. If not, then it's pretty self explanatory... IDK how you want to manage it but I'm just giving a suggestion.TrueTenguMan (Talk 7:47 AM, April 22, 2010
- That definitely makes sense, but the point of a wiki is to show useful information. Bouncing off of your idea, though, if they change back to resistances and the numbers are mostly the same, as you say, we can simply revert the posts, or grab the old info from the revision history. It'll be a pain, but.. Working on a wiki for a game that has been in beta for so long, we were bound to hit some snags. I wish we knew how temporary this Resistances fix was. If I knew it was going to be a while, I'd start changing over armor pages now. Otherwise I'd just leave it. Either way, myself or someone else is going to have to rework some templates. Again. I'll be on later, but I'll be thinking of things until then. Thanks, TTM. Specific τ/‹ 17:58, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
- That definitely makes sense, but the point of a wiki is to show useful information. Bouncing off of your idea, though, if they change back to resistances and the numbers are mostly the same, as you say, we can simply revert the posts, or grab the old info from the revision history. It'll be a pain, but.. Working on a wiki for a game that has been in beta for so long, we were bound to hit some snags. I wish we knew how temporary this Resistances fix was. If I knew it was going to be a while, I'd start changing over armor pages now. Otherwise I'd just leave it. Either way, myself or someone else is going to have to rework some templates. Again. I'll be on later, but I'll be thinking of things until then. Thanks, TTM.
- New Templates. Arms Legs Headgear Feet Chest Shoulder Shield Hands Neck Waist. Check them out. Converted every page I could find using Armor over and fixed any inconsistencies with the new templates, especially in the way of screenshot upload names. Please use .png as opposed to .PNG in the future, everyone. Didn't make templates for rings/amulets/talismans, yet. Probably could, but I haven't the energy left in me.
- Image names don't require input if they use the naming convention of {{PAGENAME}}.png and {{PAGENAME}} Icon.png so that's a plus. If they don't follow those guidelines, you can use imagefile and iconfile parameters.
- Resistances are currently listed as N/A, since Piggypops says resistances will be returning.
- Weapon DPS is now calculated automatically, so just put in the min and max base damage. The weapon templates are. Um. 3 posts up.
- When making a reference to an item, and the icon for that item has been uploaded, (Say for a quest, the reward is x item, or a monster drops y item) you can now do {{itemref|item}}. So {{itemref|Recruit's Blade}} will yield Recruit's Blade
.
Actually you know, I poked around the items and equipment topic on the Earth Eternal site discussing some concerns of what armor is which. Well basically it has to do with the bonuses it is included with. Like say (hypothetically) if I find an armor with +5 Spirit and +3 Psyche and use it on my Druid, it'll benefit it more than using it on a Knight who only uses armor which would benefit it's main stat focus ((Strength, Constitution)). So if I equip an armor of the opposite support on a class that doesn't not need the specific bonus stats, then it'll mean a large cut on your Class's stat which they need the most. Something like that... TrueTenguMan (Talk 7:37 AM, April 28, 2010
- Well. Yeah. That's the way this and nearly every other MMORPG has been designed for years. I assume you played pre-0.8.6, where there was Heavy/Cloth/Light/Medium armor? That's what I was bemoaning above, the fact that they demolished our ideas of four armor groups and steamrolled them all into one group. Of course, PiggyPops did give a confusing description saying that "Knights will gain 4x armor benefit from armor designed for their class" which hinted at "wearing Heavy armor on a Knight has benefits" and he also said "Mages will see decreased damage output from wearing armor that is not designed for their class" which hinted at "wearing Heavy armor on a Mage decreases spell effectiveness", but that was all just a misunderstanding, as it turns out. He was just being overly obvious in pointing out what you yourself just said, TTM. Either way, I think I reworked all of the Armor templates. Anyone who hasn't already should read my above posts about template changes. Specific τ/‹ 19:36, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Well. Yeah. That's the way this and nearly every other MMORPG has been designed for years. I assume you played pre-0.8.6, where there was Heavy/Cloth/Light/Medium armor? That's what I was bemoaning above, the fact that they demolished our ideas of four armor groups and steamrolled them all into one group. Of course, PiggyPops did give a confusing description saying that "Knights will gain 4x armor benefit from armor designed for their class" which hinted at "wearing Heavy armor on a Knight has benefits" and he also said "Mages will see decreased damage output from wearing armor that is not designed for their class" which hinted at "wearing Heavy armor on a Mage decreases spell effectiveness", but that was all just a misunderstanding, as it turns out. He was just being overly obvious in pointing out what you yourself just said, TTM. Either way, I think I reworked all of the Armor templates. Anyone who hasn't already should read my above posts about template changes.
Image disappearance?[]
Anyone noticed that some of our later images are gone? btw, the wysiwyg editor sucks :O--Mushroom mushroom ♥/♣ 16:07, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
- I hate the WYSIWYG editor... It's actually the WYGAWYW editor -- what you get ain't what you wanted, or the WYSAWYG editor -- what you see ain't what you get. That aside, what images are gone? Is there any deletion history or move history? (I know, you've probably already looked, but I had to ask! xD) «Nuilvian Talk/Contribs» 00:48, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
Yea they're back now. Some images like the picture on shroomie wasn't able to load, they had a undeletd picture page and all but the actual picture just wouldn't show. Mushroom mushroom ♥/♣ 15:34, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
- Belated response. My guess is that Wikia's servers were having issues or something. As long as it's working now, though, no harm done. «Nuilvian Talk/Contribs» 01:34, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
New Patch update[]
Since the new patch is coming very soon, we should probably update the front page mentioning the invasion...TrueTenguMan (Talk 7:50 AM, April 15, 2010
- Updated the news section. =] By the way, this is actually the kind of message that does belong on Talk:Main Page. «Nuilvian Talk/Contribs» 01:22, April 16, 2010 (UTC)